Aaron Parecki

🔴 Live Q&A! Testing out the YoloBox NETWORK BONDING in terrible network conditions!

May 28, 2023

Questions

(6:17) Q: How is the house coming... missing those House Files episodes!

(7:21) I want to buy a yolo box mini for live broadcasts from the street, what is the quality of the connection? Is it better to broadcast live on the phone?

(7:24) Hello From Georgia

(7:27) I want to buy a yolo box mini for live broadcasts from the street, what is the quality of the connection? Is it better to broadcast live on the phone?

(9:29) Q What 5G/LTE category is the internal modem? Has it worked well for you?

(11:39) This is going to be a real treat of real-time tcgui network testing.

(11:46) Happy Sunday Friends!

(19:07) Interesting that it prefers wifi over ethernet

(19:32) I am hoping Yolobox is more resilient than ATEM mini Extreme struggle bus when it comes to network issues.

(19:41) Another magical supersource layout. 👍

(19:43) Q: Is network bonding only available with the Pro?

(20:00) Imagine forgetting to turn these off when at a real job hahah. I would totally do that and wonder what's going on

(20:11) Q: What causes yolobox pro livestream drops frames even if you connected to WiFi and SIM card?

(20:25) Q: Did you have to do anything special to get rate limiting to work in TCGUI? I couldn't get that part to work for me

(20:34) Everyone remember to 👍🏽 the live-stream

(20:42) Q. Is the Yolobox streaming directly to YouTube or to a Yololive service?

(22:12) Q: Yolo network bonding is using Yolo cloud services, correct? Do they have PoPs world wide? And what do they charge for bonding bandwidth?

(23:36) I wonder how well this works vs Speedify

(29:17) Oh noes. Live stream and a bit of the House Files too, interrupting!!! 😆

(29:20) That's a first! What do you think Aaron will be framed for?

(29:36) Q Is this configurable at all like a "redundant" mode or something like that. Or does Yolo just handle it automagically?

(30:48) The Musik is still playing!

(30:56) half and half. Easy math

(32:12) It's wild that the other streams 4 second is behind what you receive and then display in the lower right.

(33:35) That means the "stream" stream (in low latency) is only 3-4 sec. behind the test stream.

(37:56) Q: Did you explicitly set 4Mbit as the stream bandwidth or did it just end up compressing to that on its own?

(38:29) Seems like poor sharing if it just outright ignores the Ethernet when it was at 2mbit.

(41:39) Q: Is the bonding really using TCP? Seems it would make more sense for the bonding layer to use UDP with a bonding-layer-optimized lost packet recovery.

(42:02) Super curious if it will dynamically adjust bitrate if it's throttled enough on both connections.

(46:00) Interesting. Looks like no. I'm just trying to compare with "pro" solutions like LiveU that I think do adjust bitrate based on network conditions.

(47:26) Q: And will the Yolobox do dynamic bandwidth so it will degrade "gracefully" if there isn't enough total aggrebandwidth?

(47:44) Q - Will you be trying the Kiloview P3 5G Bonding Video Encoder, it runs H265 5G?

(47:57) Sorry. I meant what I'm watching the test stream on gets to me slower than time it gets back to you and shows on this stream. Using a mobile network here and wifi on the other.

(48:18) Q: In a future version of this testing rig should you put your control and monitoring devices on an unimpeded connection?

(49:59) I was watching a professional USA Track & Field broadcast on NBC a couple weeks ago that used LiveU and the connection broke and showed the LiveU branded slate page for awhile oops. Not perfect either

(50:16) Now.. Are we able to revive a stuck ATEM with a full buffer by hitting the FTB button?! I might want to test that some time.

(50:26) We need a network diagram of your studio to see all the connections.

(50:37) Q: do you know of any DIY options for bonding networking connections?

(50:50) @TVJAY Engarde is an open source *redundant* connection solution but it's not quite as "smart" as this. It will us all the bandwidth possible of all connections at all times.

(51:00) @TVJAY Not for the light hearted though. Haha it's self-hosted and needs some good networking knowledge

(55:39) @TVJAY There's OpenMPTCProuter as well, but I haven't used that at all.

(1:00:47) I wish I was at home on my better network. I don't think I'm getting the full effect. The other stream is so far behind even at 420p. Both streams are as live as YT will give me.

(1:01:05) Honestly been using Streamify for a while now and their service has been stellar!

(1:01:12) Built a bonded Win 11 streaming backpack combining this with a Netgear Nighthawk 5G and additional couple hardwired phones to provide multiple additional connections and it’s been fabulous.

(1:01:25) They have multiple modes including speed bonding and redundancy plus a smart mode and it works amazing. They even have been working on logic for Starlink based connections which can be problematic

(1:01:42) Have you any way of examining the side of the TCP window?

(1:01:52) I wonder if the Yolobox is as good at handling packet loss *without* bonding. Maybe there's something extra it's able to do with a VPN it otherwise can't.

(1:06:08) Interesting. I remember reading about features like forward error correction and other things (I'm not super well read on it) that are only possible if you control both sides of the connection.

(1:06:54) I give Frank and Yololiv a big thumbs up for this hardware/software architecture. Built to handle the real world.

(1:07:06) Someone mentioned earlier about a DIY option. If you can get a Raspberry Pi 4, load Speedify and utilize the Wi-Fi and eth0 and usb with tethering. I’ve used it a while ago and it saved my bacon.

(1:08:00) I’m assuming the network bonding is doing a bunch on the server end

(1:08:57) I have been using YBP, but so far my experience is very bad. always takes long time for any input to show up. hot swap also makes input buffer.

(1:09:31) Q: Another approach rather than adding another NIC to the Mac notebook (presumably via USB-C) might be to use a virtual machine

(1:09:47) yes

(1:09:52) yes that's what I mean

(1:10:22) Honestly this is pretty fantastic. The only "missing" feature I see is dynamically adjusting bitrate as network conditions change but that's a tough one.

(1:11:01) Can you test way more delay? Like 400-500ms? Cell networks can get to that range when stressing a connection

(1:13:39) TV crew spotted!

(1:13:43) All of our packets have to move up this steep hill. No wonder it's buffering.

(1:14:48) I’m sure you mentioned Aaron but what tool are you using to modify the connections?

(1:15:35) If you want a self built solution with network adaptive encoding, the Pi is too weak. The NVIDIA Jetson is fast enough and there is Belabox that does SRT, Bonding, h.265 and network adaptive encoding.

(1:16:06) The Yolo team has really done a nice job with all of this

(1:16:11) Really useful information! I've been loving these streams. Thanks for this

(1:16:49) Special request for next week: RFC 1149 and IP over Avian Carriers!

(1:18:20) This is all useful but tbh I've taken almost a 100% approach to just only doing streams at venues where the internet is tested sufficient lol

(1:18:53) Have you done any streaming back to broadcasters Aaron? Especially without using something like a LiveU backpack but instead a more manual approach?

(1:20:14) Any gotcha points you can share if you have?

(1:22:05) Have you ever played with NDI over the internet as an alternative to RTMP or SRT?

(1:22:08) For that server hop situation to be clear

(1:22:23) @Aaron Parecki You should team up with Scotty from Strange Parts. His streams are super exciting, but he lives on a mountain in the Rockies and the connection is always horrendous. Chaos net 24/7.

(1:22:34) Have you tried Liveu Solo Pro & Mine Media Q8/R8 ?

(1:23:09) You are ready for a highly optimized bike stream

(1:24:38) Thanks for another informative and interesting stream

(1:24:49) There used to be special phone codes to ensure that you got an undersea cable rather than a satellite link - useful when you needed to control latency in networking.

(1:24:57) I was staying at an island in Belize once and every connection available, including cell networks, were going over a PtP wireless connection to the mainland haha. Super bad

(1:25:07) Do you know of any solid small USB capture cards that support more than stereo audio?

(1:25:21) My GH6 outputs four audio channels and would love to get grab all four independently

(1:27:04) The Mini Recorders 3G take 8 Channels

(1:27:08) Problem is I don’t have Thunderbolt and it needs to run off batteries

(1:27:16) I think that's a great demo of bonding and testing of the pathways. Now to try the other streaming encoders.

(1:27:43) Sim card + bonding on the Yololiv Pro. Absolutely Yes for a bike ride live stream.

(1:27:52) I know this is a bit off topic more related to last week atém mini tests. But I've never been able to make a mobile connection via USB c. anyone with similar problem???

(1:28:38) I'll gladly loan any encoders i have or sim cards you need to the cause. These are fun

(1:30:34) ahh, the usw flex!

(1:30:43) You haven't let your framers have access to your WiFi have you? They might be streaming their own version of the House Files.

(1:30:50) Sweet tip Aaron on the UniFi setup

(1:32:47) I have five of those flex switches super handy when working with organizations running UniFi

(1:33:04) That makes my brain hurt.

(1:36:28) Perhaps using that new Streamdeck with Knobs

(1:36:31) Retro.

(1:36:33) That’s totally retro.

(1:38:16) And then you add your flap display

(1:38:21) That sounds super cool! A lot of work though yeah haha

(1:39:58) Cheers for an interesting stream that made me pause my day! 🤣

(1:40:05) Great info. Thanks for doing this. It'll probably be referenced from now on.

(1:40:35) a final super chat for good measure! thanks!

(1:40:35) a final super chat for good measure! thanks!